tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post5266449752291684740..comments2023-09-26T12:09:58.509+03:00Comments on English Language Etiquette for Russians: End of term prizes: the Hot Air awardsIan Mitchellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05199914038770927077noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post-33036675707486526952013-07-28T22:40:37.281+04:002013-07-28T22:40:37.281+04:00Ian, what your Anonymous reader tried to say (if I... Ian, what your Anonymous reader tried to say (if I may comment on that and if he doesn't mind me guessing on that matter) is that advertising like that is just wasting your time.<br /> All those people you mentioned in your post would never ever read your blog :)<br /> For a simple reason that most Russian 'old school' scholars are simply not interested in improving their English at all :) They are quite happy with this bulky illogical stuff:) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11937579924971678402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post-79655415032452242912013-07-28T22:33:34.533+04:002013-07-28T22:33:34.533+04:00Totally agree, it has nothing to do with academic ... Totally agree, it has nothing to do with academic people struggling with writing in plain English, it's more about a weird tradition of 'formal academic' writing in Russian. The more complicated it sounds the more 'academic' and 'sophisticated' it pretends to be.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11937579924971678402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post-61434779495132945752013-07-24T23:29:43.588+04:002013-07-24T23:29:43.588+04:00Thank you, Estee, for that thoughtful comment. I c...Thank you, Estee, for that thoughtful comment. I certainly agree that the problem is not confined to Russians. But I can only be in one country at once!<br /><br />However, my underlying point is less about language than about what it reveals about thought. In the examples I quoted, I would argue that the messy, illogical language is partly a reflection of messy, half-digested thoughts. See my comments on Bertrand Russell in my reply to Anonymous immediately below.<br /><br />IanIan Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05199914038770927077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post-90846805467554700692013-07-24T23:23:27.804+04:002013-07-24T23:23:27.804+04:00No, they are all ads. I have to earn a living some...No, they are all ads. I have to earn a living somehow! However, I really DO think that Russians who need to communicate in print with the outside world should pay much more attention to their literary etiquette, which is the underlying point of this blog. <br /><br />If they could do this, they would have the drop on half the British and American "communicators" who cannot use the language properly or elegantly either. <br /><br />I have spent much of this afternoon sitting in a garden here in Glasgow in the sunshine with a glass of cool white wine reading Bertrand Russell's "History of Western Philosophy". That is a model of how to write: beautiful and amazingly informative at the same time, because Russell can express himself clearly, simply and with a dash of wit. THAT is my standard of literary etiquette.Ian Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05199914038770927077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post-57522459204761603602013-07-24T12:58:28.843+04:002013-07-24T12:58:28.843+04:00I have to admit... i LIKE IT!!! And I would argue...I have to admit... i LIKE IT!!! And I would argue, that what passes for "business English" in Great Britain, does not pass for 'Business English' in the United States or with global employees of vast American Corporations, who employ a species of English so truncated and coiled around "nouns as verbs" as to be unintelligible by anyone but an american business person or a small child.<br /><br />If I were to translate one of your examples above into US Business English: "Russian is Single-spacing into Kazakhstan and ByelRussia. Normative bunching should be reconsidered."<br /><br />I rest my case.Electra Smithhttp://www.mgck.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post-88702013841993939532013-07-24T02:32:49.192+04:002013-07-24T02:32:49.192+04:00"not prepared to get their work put into acce..."not prepared to get their work put into acceptable English by a specialist, like me (which is a sin!" -is it an advertisement or a blog? I just can't understand your recent point- almost every post since the beginning of summer contains such an ad. Ian, do you really think that this can help you or is it just kinda jokes I can't get? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post-25174676029233538272013-07-23T21:19:51.254+04:002013-07-23T21:19:51.254+04:00I do not know English well anough to judge the exa...I do not know English well anough to judge the examples presented above (and beg the pardon for my own written language I dare demostrate here), but why not to look deeper in the problem? When I was a student myself I was always confused what my language teachers wanted to see from my transnlations (which we were assigned in the class or as a homework): a rather awkward (in my opinion) word-by-word translation that demonstrated that I'd learned the vocabulary we were required to learn, or a smoother translation of the meaning of the text which (in my opinion again) was much more useful and reasonable, but I always doubted whether it was appropriate for demonstrating that I'd learned what I should in terms of the English language course.<br /><br />Another idea: many Russian scholars (and lawyers, who are famous for having a rather verbose style in almost any language) do not (and have been not taught to) WRITE in English. They TRANSLATE their Russian originals (and that's what they have been taught to, and more or less mastered while being students). And since most of them are no Nora Gal (you may have heard of that famous Russian transator) - their efforts end up in examples given above.<br /><br />I would rather not confine this to Russians, I've seen enough absolutely incomprehensible papers written by Greek or Japanese authors as well, etc, etc<br /> <br />However I believe if one is not a professional (and gifted) translator, it may be the less evil to translate a paper word by word. Thus we will at least have an exact translation of the author's own words. In many cases professionals who read that rubbish understand the author'a idea. General public may not, but most of such papers are not meant to be read by a journalist or a ballerina. Of course it is great if they read and find it perfectly understandable. But if not, it doesn't actually matter.<br /><br />It is much worse when a translator try to translate "creatively", trying to translate the meaning (s)he actually have no idea of or has not enough knowledge to put in right words. The result may be fully understandble for all... except those whom the author actually meant to address it to. It is better if the result is just ridiculous. Worse if it loses or even misrepresent the gist, the ideas the author tried to make clear to the readers.<br /><br />And would also suggest that most of those writers either have never heard of any Ian Mitchell and an idea of proofreading at all or can't afford it, or both.Esteehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03580820304841725367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7351778691752546690.post-24699240051982110542013-07-23T15:28:29.626+04:002013-07-23T15:28:29.626+04:00O, how sweet! (I am being sarcastic, of course). I...O, how sweet! (I am being sarcastic, of course). In fact, this is a plain word-by-word translation of what is considered to be 'good formal Russian'. When I was doing my PhD on Pushkin and Shakespeare (imagine that!), I was strongly recommended to write like that, because it was 'academic' by Russian standards. When I did not write formally enough, one of professors accused me of using 'slang' (however, the accusing part failed to prove that I ever did)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com